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Saturday, September 03, 2005

Fetus: Little one, a feeling human being

Just felt compelled to link to this article, "Babies Cry in the Womb" after it touched my heart and reminded me yet again about the preciousness of all babies, born and unborn.

"For You, O Lord, are my hope,
my trust, O LORD from my youth.
Upon you I have leaned from before my birth..."
~ Psalm 71:6a (ESV)


Anonymous Anonymous said...

you mean this is christain >

Hosea 9:11-16 Hosea prays for God’s intervention. “Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer. Give them, 0 Lord: what wilt thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. . .Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.” Clearly Hosea desires that the people of Ephraim can no longer have children. God of course obeys by making all their unborn children miscarry. Is not terminating a pregnancy unnaturally “abortion”?

Numbers 5:11-21 The description of a bizarre, brutal and abusive ritual to be performed on a wife SUSPECTED of adultery. This is considered to be an induced abortion to rid a woman of another man’s child.

Numbers 31:17 (Moses) “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women that hath known man by lying with him.” In other words: women that might be pregnant, which clearly is abortion for the fetus.

Hosea 13:16 God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria and the “their women with child shall be ripped up”. Once again this god kills the unborn, including their pregnant mothers.

2 Kings 15:16 God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah (aka Tiphsah) to be “ripped open”. And the Christians have the audacity to say god is pro-life. How and the hell is it that Christians can read passages where God allows pregnant women to be murdered, yet still claim abortion is wrong?


1 Samuel 15:3 God commands the death of helpless "suckling" infants. This literally means that the children god killed were still nursing.

Psalms 135:8 & 136:10 Here god is praised for slaughtering little babies.

Psalms 137:9 Here god commands that infants should be “dashed upon the rocks”.

The murdering of children:

Leviticus 20:9 “For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.”

Judges 11:30-40 Jephthah killed his young daughter (his only child) by burning her alive as a burnt sacrifice to the lord for he commanded it.

Psalms 137:8-9 Prayer/song of vengeance “0 daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.”

2 Kings 6:28-29 “And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him today, and we will eat my son tomorrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son.”

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 “If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.”

Judges 19:24-29 “Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go. Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man’s house where her lord was, till it was light. And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold. And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place. And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.” To put it very bluntly this poor, young lady was murdered by her mate for being raped.

Exodus 12:29 God killed, intentionally, every first-born child of every family in Egypt, simply because he was upset at the Pharaoh. And god caused the Pharaoh’s actions in the first place. Since when is it appropriate to murder children for their ruler’s forced action?

Exodus 20:9-10 God commands death for cursing out ones parents Joshua 8 God commanded the deaths of 12,000 men, women, and children of Ai. They were all slain in the ambush that was planned by god.

2 Kings 2:23-24 The prophet Elisha, was being picked on by some young boys from the city because of his bald head. The prophet turned around and cursed them in the Lords name. Then, two female bears came out of the woods and killed forty-two of them. You would think that God could understand that sometimes the youthful make childish jokes. Calling someone “bald head” is far from being worthy of death.

Leviticus 26:30 “And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.”

1 Samuel 15:11-18 God repents of having made Saul king since Saul refused to carry out God’s commandments (i.e., Saul refused to murder all the innocent women and children.) At least god realizes what an immoral, murderous pig he is on this one.

I Kings 16:34 Laying the foundation for a city using your firstborn child and using your youngest son to set up the gates.

Isaiah 13:15-18 If God can find you, he will “thrust you through,” smash your children “to pieces” before your eyes, and rape your wife.

Jeremiah 11:22-23 God will kill the young men in war and starve their children to death.

Jeremiah 19:7-9 God will make parents eat their own children, and friends eat each other.

Lamentations 2:20-22 God gets angry and mercilessly torments and kills everyone, young and old. He even causes women to eat their children.

Child abuse:

Genesis 22:9 & 10 “And they came to the place which God had told him of and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood. And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.” It matters not that god let Abraham get out of murdering Isaac. To put a knife up to your son’s throat is child abuse.

I Kings 3:24-25 “And the king said, Bring me a sword. And they brought a sword before the king. And the king said, Divide the living child in two, and give half to the one, and half to the other." This test was of course given to see who the real mother of the child was. Christians view this king as a wise man. I look upon his suggestion with far more revulsion then I give accredit to Susan Smith.

Proverbs 13:24, 19:18, 22:15, 23:13-14 & 29:15 God commands repeatedly that you beat your children.

Matthew 19:29 If you really loved Jesus then he insists that you abandon your wife and children for him. Only that way will he allow you to go to heaven. (That is if you meet his other hefty requirements, don’t slip through the loopholes, and ignore the contradictions.)

Mark 7:9 Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law.

In conclusion I shall end this list with a verse that should keep the pro lifers in check. It is Romans 13: 1-7

“Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which god has established. The authorities that exist have been established by god. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what god has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he shall commend you. For he is god’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is god’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. There fore it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.

This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are god’s servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes, if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.”

Clearly it is the job of Christians to obey the laws, and the laws of this country clearly state that abortion is legal. So too should Christians respect and honor that law. God commands them to NOT disobey, which entails attempting to get the law overturned. If god wanted abortion to be illegal he wouldn’t have appointed authorities to make it legal.

1:14 AM  
Blogger Huichieh said...

I would like to go to bed already, so this will have to be a really quick one.

I'm not exactly sure what the point of your post is. There's lots in there that we don't disagree with.

The original post links to a news item the gist of which is: "A new study has revealed that unborn babies cry within the womb. Ultrasound videos taken of infants within the womb revealed 28-week-old babies crying in response to a noise stimulus." And Elaine commented that it reminded here again about "the preciousness of all babies, born and unborn".

So...what exactly is objectionable?

The last part to your comment suggests, perhaps, that you think that we somehow believe that abortion should be illegal... Well, it's much more complicated than that. We--at least this Christian--believe that abortion is morally wrong. It contravenes the 6th commandment. But whether it ought to be legal or not is another question altogether.

If--as a citizen of a country--I believe that some law ought to be changed, then I need to appeal for that change through normal, legal means--just like everyone else. Most importantly, I jolly well had better be able to present a good public reason for such a suggestion. (google for "public reason") That is, roughly, a reason that everyone of whatever sectarian religious or moral persuasion can in principle accept. If no such reason is available, then I have to desist. And even if such a reason is available, other people--equally citizens, might disagree. They might not see things my way. And it will be their right to do so.

I take the separation of the church and state very seriously

Even when the laws of the country permit things that are morally wrong, as long as it is properly the law of the country, then I am duty bound to obey it. Yes, Rom 13 is important in this regard. But it is the job of every citizen to obey the law; I don't expect any less from my non-Christian fellow citizens!

But all that is hardly anything to write home about; just the way modern democratic societies work...

I'll look more closely at the passages you cited later.

1:43 AM  
Blogger Huichieh said...

Since there are a few NT passages, and they are familiar, I'll say a bit about them first. (OT ones are always more interesting...)

Matthew 19:29 - I think you confused a sufficient condition with a necessary condition. The passage has Christ saying:

"Everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms for My name's sake, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life."

In other words, (for all x)(if Fx the Gx). Your point requires him to have said (for all x)(Gx only if Fx) ("only that way will he..."). But you do realise that you can't validly infer "Q only if P" from "if P then Q" right?

Mark 7:9 - Isn't the saying directed at the disobedient sons rather than the parents? The passage reads:

"He was also saying to them, "You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. For Moses said,


but you say, 'If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),' you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that."

In other words, the issue is not about the parents not carrying out the Mosiac law to the letter (in any case impossible under Roman conditions since capital punishment was the strict progative of the Roman government in occupied Palestine), but about the sons getting around their obligation to their parents by the 'inventive use of tradition'.

Rom 13 - It is extremely important to keep in mind the political realities. Rome was not some "big friendly regime". It was extremely brutal. But despite that, Paul nevertheless says that Christians ought to obey the laws--you should have emphasised the context because it actually reinforces your point. In other words, the Christian's obedience to the law cannot be conditional upon the government being good or to our 'taste'. (This entails that even when Christian had to disobey the law so as not to break God's commands--as often happens in times of persecution--the thing to do is not to resist arrest when the police comes, or perhaps even to turn oneself in...)

But note: all this is compatible with Christians--just like everyone else--making full use of the provisions of the law. So for example Paul made use of his legal status as a Roman citizen (Acts 16:37-40) to win some reprive for the fledging new congregation in Philippi, or appealing to Caesar (as is the legal right of every Roman citizen) when he realises that here in the provinces, his trial is going nowhere (Acts 25:6-12). Nothing fancy. He was just acting within his legal rights.

And in modern democracies, the provision of the law goes further. There are legal and proper avenues of feedback, complaint, redress; there is the election of public officials; there is taking part in national debates on policy issues, representation, etc., etc.--all to be done completely within the law.

Again, nothing to write home about, I trust.

2:42 AM  
Anonymous Marina said...

Someone here commented that Mark 7:9 says "Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law."

Whooooowa! Such ignorance and violation of Jesus' Words and Teachings! Jesus was saying that anyone who takes resentment for their parents to their grave will die in their resentment and will not see The Kingdom of Heaven.

People, please stop abusing The Words of Christ, this is a great iniquity.

3:16 PM  

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